Maysam

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But is it true when you have deep separation of the crust the interior of the loaf is exposed to more direct heat and, accordingly, it will tend to dry out?
In my experience it is more important how much water you can cram into the dough without it getting too soft and at which temperature you bake.
 

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maysam may be out here with his beautiful aryan bread but i am making my 500th loaf of lavender honey bread because i like the flavor combo
while the recipe says to bake it at 400 for 25 minutes i decided this time to experiment even more by trying a lower bake temp and longer bake time as it was leaving the outside too dark for my liking and it came out softer n more bready
20240319_094753.jpg

i am pleased
my assistant baker bear approves
20240319_094823.jpg
 

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IMG_20240327_165157537.jpg

My version of Caldo de Pollo. La Moderna pasta, chicken stock, cilantro cooking base, Goya sazon, rosemary, garlic, onion, California blend veggies, and shredded chicken breast that was boiled in the stock.
 

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sausage, kale, red bell pepper, chicken bone broth, black eyed peas, baby carrots, potat, onion, splash of fire cider, basil leaves, little bit of black pepper, spoonful of minced garlic
20240327_202412.jpg

delicious n filling
 

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while the recipe says to bake it at 400 for 25 minutes i decided this time to experiment even more by trying a lower bake temp and longer bake time as it was leaving the outside too dark for my liking and it came out softer n more bready
View attachment 91664
It looks heavy like banana bread. Did you use quite a bit of honey in it?

sausage, kale, red bell pepper, chicken bone broth, black eyed peas, baby carrots, potat, onion, splash of fire cider, basil leaves, little bit of black pepper, spoonful of minced garlic
View attachment 92004
delicious n filling
Your repeated use of fire cider is beginning to annoy me. Although I’ve never used it, I’m unconvinced that it would be good in any recipe but especially in stews and the like.
 

minty

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It looks heavy like banana bread. Did you use quite a bit of honey in it?


Your repeated use of fire cider is beginning to annoy me. Although I’ve never used it, I’m unconvinced that it would be good in any recipe but especially in stews and the like.
your opinion is not in the recipe
 

Maysam

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That’s another good looking loaf, but I am concerned about the crust-to-soft bread ratio. That’s a lot of crust.
I like it that way right now. If I want to have it any other way I can easily adjust the recipe accordingly.
 

Maysam

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What would you do to produce a loaf with less crust? More moisture? Bake on a lower temperature?
No, I'd leave it out in the basket longer. The process is as such:
  • Mix dough
  • Leave dough at room temperature between 12 and 24 hours depending on how much yeast is in there and/or how strongly the pre-dough has ripened
  • Form loaf
  • Put loaf into basket and give it time up to an hour
  • During this time, heat up the oven including a cast iron pot with lid
  • Put loaf into pot, close lid, bake
The part I marked in red most strongly determines how deep the loaf breaks open during baking. Short time = strong rupture, lots of crust. Too much time would lead to a weak rupture and less crust but also a flat loaf that doesn't rise a lot during baking anymore. This is then apparently called overfermentation.
In this case it surely made a difference that I had the loaf in the fridge before baking, so despite having enough time for a normally temperated dough, the cold loaf would have needed more time.

Another possibility is wet forming the loaf which basically means forming the loaf with water instead of flour and also throwing a bit of water into the pot with the loaf. I posted a wet formed loaf in here before. This variant is a bit more stressful though.
 

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Quence

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No, I'd leave it out in the basket longer. The process is as such:
  • Mix dough
  • Leave dough at room temperature between 12 and 24 hours depending on how much yeast is in there and/or how strongly the pre-dough has ripened
  • Form loaf
  • Put loaf into basket and give it time up to an hour
  • During this time, heat up the oven including a cast iron pot with lid
  • Put loaf into pot, close lid, bake
The part I marked in red most strongly determines how deep the loaf breaks open during baking. Short time = strong rupture, lots of crust. Too much time would lead to a weak rupture and less crust but also a flat loaf that doesn't rise a lot during baking anymore. This is then apparently called overfermentation.
In this case it surely made a difference that I had the loaf in the fridge before baking, so despite having enough time for a normally temperated dough, the cold loaf would have needed more time.

Another possibility is wet forming the loaf which basically means forming the loaf with water instead of flour and also throwing a bit of water into the pot with the loaf. I posted a wet formed loaf in here before. This variant is a bit more stressful though.
Why does allowing the dough to sit in a basket for up to an hour result in a thinner crust? After all, you have already let the dough sit for 12 to 24 hours.

When I go hiking I make sandwiches to take with me.
I was curious about that because round loaves produce unequal sized slices of bread.

The loaf I made here is wet formed:
To me, that looks like the proper amount of crust for a loaf.
 

Maysam

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Why does allowing the dough to sit in a basket for up to an hour result in a thinner crust? After all, you have already let the dough sit for 12 to 24 hours.
When you form the loaf, you stir it, and allegedly* provide oxygen to the yeast, plus you pop some of the bubbles already built. The effect is like pushing a reset button on the resting time, after that it needs resting time again. As I said, up to an hour.
As for why, I'd say this final resting time greatly influences how much activity the yeast unfolds during baking. With short final resting time, the yeast still has lots of "energy" (oxygen?) left and wildly tears open the loaf. With longer resting time, the volume of the loaf already, slowly and gently, increases in the basket and not that much activity is left to unfold in the oven. Thus, the in-oven rising is less extreme.

*I'm reluctant to accept the "stirring the dough provides oxygen to the yeast" explanation and am phrasing it as such, because I am sure nobody ever actually measured that. It just makes sense but might be entirely wrong.
 

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When you form the loaf, you stir it, and allegedly* provide oxygen to the yeast, plus you pop some of the bubbles already built. The effect is like pushing a reset button on the resting time, after that it needs resting time again. As I said, up to an hour.
As for why, I'd say this final resting time greatly influences how much activity the yeast unfolds during baking. With short final resting time, the yeast still has lots of "energy" (oxygen?) left and wildly tears open the loaf. With longer resting time, the volume of the loaf already, slowly and gently, increases in the basket and not that much activity is left to unfold in the oven. Thus, the in-oven rising is less extreme.

*I'm reluctant to accept the "stirring the dough provides oxygen to the yeast" explanation and am phrasing it as such, because I am sure nobody ever actually measured that. It just makes sense but might be entirely wrong.
So perhaps another way to control crust size is to increase or decrease the amount of yeast in the dough?
 

Maysam

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So perhaps another way to control crust size is to increase or decrease the amount of yeast in the dough?
If by using a lot more resting time before final loaf forming or by adding more yeast, the dough is by my definition overfermented. In that case you could shorten that final resting time I employ and still get less crust, probably. I wouldn't do that though as I'm quite happy with the mechanisms I have at hand.
 

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If by using a lot more resting time before final loaf forming or by adding more yeast, the dough is by my definition overfermented. In that case you could shorten that final resting time I employ and still get less crust, probably. I wouldn't do that though as I'm quite happy with the mechanisms I have at hand.
Yes, it seems that you’ve developed a process that works for you. However, does that same process work for different types of grains? It seems like you generally use the same grain mixture for each loaf.
 

Maysam

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Yes, it seems that you’ve developed a process that works for you. However, does that same process work for different types of grains? It seems like you generally use the same grain mixture for each loaf.
IMO there are only two types of grains relevant for making bread: Wheat and rye. You can substitute wheat with spelt with a few tricks, then it's pretty similar. My recipe works for wheat and spelt. For rye, sourdough is mandatory, but even then you could bake it pretty similarly.
 
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